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	<title>Comments on: If There is Going to Be a Housing Bubble, It Could Largely Occur Because of Fan&#8217;s and Fred&#8217;s Trouble</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: BizzyBlog &#187; The Fred and Fan Folderol</title>
		<link>http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/#comment-123255</link>
		<dc:creator>BizzyBlog &#187; The Fred and Fan Folderol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=655#comment-123255</guid>
		<description>[...] October 11, 2005 &#8212; If There is Going to Be a Housing Bubble, It Could Largely Occur Because of Fanâ€™s and Fredâ€™s Trouble [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] October 11, 2005 &#8212; If There is Going to Be a Housing Bubble, It Could Largely Occur Because of Fanâ€™s and Fredâ€™s Trouble [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: TBlumer</title>
		<link>http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/#comment-1901</link>
		<dc:creator>TBlumer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=655#comment-1901</guid>
		<description>&lt;p align="left"&gt;#3, Fred and Fan ARE the main buyers and then bundlers of the "crap" into MBSs.  They have also kept many of these mortgages and/or bought a lot of MBSs themselves during the past 10 or so years.

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;The implicit backing of Uncle Sam means two things (this is a non-expert expression of it and may vary from detailed reality a bit):
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;1. "The market" believes that if MBSs collapsed because the underlying loans went into default to a major degree, Uncle Sam would be forced by political realities to make MBS investors whole.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;2. If Fan and/or Fred fail, Uncle Sam would have to intervene with cash infusions to Fred and Fan to make sure the mortgage market doesn't totally collapse.

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;The first point has been an actual market expectation since the beginning of Fan and Fred. The second point has become an important issue because Fan and Fred have kept so many of the mortgages and/or MBSs for themselves and are exposing themselves to huge amounts of risk compared to what was commonly understood to be their original mission, which was to be a conduit between the mortgage lenders and the securities market. The OFHEO guy wants them to downsize their portfolios to at least minimize this second risk.

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;"Wow" is right, especially since, as you indicated and as I know for a fact from conversations with people in the lending industry, Fred and Fan are buying up ever-riskier mortgages (Interest-onlys, etc.), and (not discussed in this post) have lowered the minimum credit and other criteria borrowers have to meet to qualify as the type of loan they will buy.  

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;It COULD be that the quality of some of these mortgages is so bad that they CAN'T turn them into MBSs, because the market would want too high of an interest rate to make up for the risk, which in turn MAY be forcing Fan and Fred to keep the marginal loans on their books.  That requires a lot more investigative firepower than I could even hope to have.  As Armando indicated, The Big Four auditors of both institutions have been pulling their hair out for nearly years now trying to get a handle on these two messes.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p align="left"&gt;Given who was in charge of these institutions during the 1990s, I believe if and when this is ever fully investigated, the portfolio buildups that occurred during that time will be seen as a conscious effort by the institutions to dominate the housing market, in effect quasi-nationalizing it, that blew up in their faces during the 2000 mini-recession and the aftermath of 9/11.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left">#3, Fred and Fan ARE the main buyers and then bundlers of the &#8220;crap&#8221; into MBSs.  They have also kept many of these mortgages and/or bought a lot of MBSs themselves during the past 10 or so years.</p>
<p align="left">The implicit backing of Uncle Sam means two things (this is a non-expert expression of it and may vary from detailed reality a bit):
</p>
<p align="left">1. &#8220;The market&#8221; believes that if MBSs collapsed because the underlying loans went into default to a major degree, Uncle Sam would be forced by political realities to make MBS investors whole.
</p>
<p align="left">2. If Fan and/or Fred fail, Uncle Sam would have to intervene with cash infusions to Fred and Fan to make sure the mortgage market doesn&#8217;t totally collapse.</p>
<p align="left">The first point has been an actual market expectation since the beginning of Fan and Fred. The second point has become an important issue because Fan and Fred have kept so many of the mortgages and/or MBSs for themselves and are exposing themselves to huge amounts of risk compared to what was commonly understood to be their original mission, which was to be a conduit between the mortgage lenders and the securities market. The OFHEO guy wants them to downsize their portfolios to at least minimize this second risk.</p>
<p align="left">&#8220;Wow&#8221; is right, especially since, as you indicated and as I know for a fact from conversations with people in the lending industry, Fred and Fan are buying up ever-riskier mortgages (Interest-onlys, etc.), and (not discussed in this post) have lowered the minimum credit and other criteria borrowers have to meet to qualify as the type of loan they will buy.  </p>
<p align="left">It COULD be that the quality of some of these mortgages is so bad that they CAN&#8217;T turn them into MBSs, because the market would want too high of an interest rate to make up for the risk, which in turn MAY be forcing Fan and Fred to keep the marginal loans on their books.  That requires a lot more investigative firepower than I could even hope to have.  As Armando indicated, The Big Four auditors of both institutions have been pulling their hair out for nearly years now trying to get a handle on these two messes.</p>
<p align="left">Given who was in charge of these institutions during the 1990s, I believe if and when this is ever fully investigated, the portfolio buildups that occurred during that time will be seen as a conscious effort by the institutions to dominate the housing market, in effect quasi-nationalizing it, that blew up in their faces during the 2000 mini-recession and the aftermath of 9/11.</p>
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		<title>By: JH</title>
		<link>http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/#comment-1899</link>
		<dc:creator>JH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=655#comment-1899</guid>
		<description>&lt;p align="left"&gt;Ok, let me start by saying I don't have expertise in economics. Just the same, this seems like complete insanity. Banks sell interest only (and worse) mortgages which are ripe for failure in the future. They immediately get them off the books as financial institutions "bundle" them into mortgage-backed securities. I always wondered who bought these bundles of crap. If there were no buyers, clearly more sensible behavior would be required at the level of the individual mortgage. How can this be ?  And what precisely is meant by "the implicit backing of Uncle Sam" ? Hopefully someone with some economics savvy can clarify this a bit more. Wow.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left">Ok, let me start by saying I don&#8217;t have expertise in economics. Just the same, this seems like complete insanity. Banks sell interest only (and worse) mortgages which are ripe for failure in the future. They immediately get them off the books as financial institutions &#8220;bundle&#8221; them into mortgage-backed securities. I always wondered who bought these bundles of crap. If there were no buyers, clearly more sensible behavior would be required at the level of the individual mortgage. How can this be ?  And what precisely is meant by &#8220;the implicit backing of Uncle Sam&#8221; ? Hopefully someone with some economics savvy can clarify this a bit more. Wow.</p>
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		<title>By: TBlumer</title>
		<link>http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>TBlumer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=655#comment-1896</guid>
		<description>&lt;p align="left"&gt;#1, assuming you mean as an investor--
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;- If you're in it for the long-term (10+ years), be in one of the bigger index funds (S&#38;P 500 or Total Stock Market) and simply ride things out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left">#1, assuming you mean as an investor&#8211;
</p>
<p align="left">- If you&#8217;re in it for the long-term (10+ years), be in one of the bigger index funds (S&amp;P 500 or Total Stock Market) and simply ride things out.</p>
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		<title>By: Porkopolis</title>
		<link>http://www.bizzyblog.com/2005/10/11/if-there-is-going-to-be-a-housing-bubble-it-will-largely-occur-because-of-fans-and-freds-trouble/#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>Porkopolis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=655#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>&lt;p align="left"&gt;Tom:

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p align="left"&gt;Can you think of anyway to hedge against this possibility?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left">Tom:</p>
<p align="left">Can you think of anyway to hedge against this possibility?</p>
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