Comments on: Weekend Question 1: Who Ended The Cold War?

By: TBlumer

TBlumer — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:57:54 +0000

#7, Cuba and NoKo have both had about 50 years of negative GDP growth (54 and 47, respectively) to the point where it isn’t even worth talking about GDP any more, and they’re “somehow” still standing. Cuba is so bad that Fidel won’t let anyone take pictures or vids except in approved places.

SOMEONE has to do SOMETHING to cause them to fail. It may be easier to make them fall if they’ve had decades of neglect, but they won’t simply fall on their own. No argument you can attempt will change that basic, stubborn, annoying, immutable, I-wish-it-weren’t-true-but-it-is fact of life.

By: Kevin Irwin

Kevin Irwin — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:46:17 +0000

Oy…Twenty years of negative GDP growth before all of this had nothing to do with it?

By: TBlumer

TBlumer — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:33:48 +0000

OMG, Kevin, what do you think happened before 1987:
- Carter saw the light and did some symbolic things (Olympic boycott) and some mildly substantive things I don’t now remember.
- Reagan bumped up defense spending, called out the evil empire by name, put Pershing missiles in Europe, got SDI going, refused to take it off the table in Iceland, and demanded that Gorby “tear down this wall!”
- Walesa bravely led the Gdansk shipyard strike and Solidarity Movement.
- The Pope and the US labor movement under Lane Kirkland lent huge moral authority and provided assistance to Solidarity. The Pope boosted the morale of the Polish people with his visits. Ultimately the Soviet tanks were NOT called in as they were 15 years earlier in Czechoslovakia and 12 years before that in Hungary.
- And Thatcher made it clear that America was not acting alone.

If these things didn’t happen, Gorby’s attempt at perestroika, which was essentially and futilely trying to open up a totalitarian society, but not too much, would not even have been considered.

If all of the above didn’t happen, the Soviet Union would still be limping along. Bush 41 probably would have done nothing proactive, and Clinton would have allowed them to get stronger again.

All of the conditions you claim cause inevitable collapse are in NoKo and Cuba, but those countries won’t collapse until someone does something to make them collapse.

By: Kevin Irwin

Kevin Irwin — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:31:09 +0000

North Korea is on the brink of disaster and Cuba enjoys economic support from virtually every nation except the US. The USSR was a donor country to communist states, whereas the two you mention are/were recipients.

The collapse of the Berlin wall was nothing more than a symbol. Gorbachev and the Politburo conceded the cold war in 1987 with Perestroika. GDP details from the former Soviet Union were mostly fuzzy, but in 1988 Gorbachev admit that the Soviet economy hadn’t shown any growth since the mid-60’s. They knew that without establishing an economy based on free market capitalism, their nation would deteriorate. Yes, the inherenet flaws of communism lead to their failures. When people are not rewarded proportionally for their work efforts, they do not participate to their fullest. It’s human capital theory in its purest form.

By: TBlumer

TBlumer — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:33:34 +0000

#3, thank you.

By: dave

dave — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:48:41 +0000

That would explain why Cuba and North Korea collapsed long ago…

By: TBlumer

TBlumer — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:00:14 +0000

#1, Kevin, you’re killing me.

If Reagan, the Pope, Lech, and Maggie didn’t do anything, the wall would still have fallen? Or are you saying it would have fallen from its own “inherent flaws” anyway 50 years later, so no big deal?

People have to take proactive action to cause a bad thing to go away. Otherwise, it won’t go away.

By: Kevin Irwin

Kevin Irwin — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:21:53 +0000

No one ended the cold war. The inherent flaws of communism brought about the end of the Soviet Union.