August 13, 2017

Sunday Off-Topic (Moderated) Open Thread (081317)

Filed under: Lucid Links — Tom @ 6:00 am

This open thread is meant for commenters to post on items either briefly noted below (if any) or otherwise not covered at this blog. Rules are here.



  1. Who gave the standdown order to the police at Charlottesville, VA?

    Who is Behind the Police Stepping Aside and Ignoring Facist Antifa Violence at Events Around the US?

    We saw this played out in Ferguson, MO and Baltimore, MD by Democrat mayors who essentially gave free run to rioters.

    More facts are coming out, did the mayor Mike Signer (D) tell the police to stand down after disbanding the permitted protest when Antifa and BLM began to riot?

    Comment by dscott — August 13, 2017 @ 10:42 am

  2. Still musing over what (if anything…seems like everyone is expected to say something) or how to express sincere empathies with the People of Charlotte, in this time of sadness …and yet this time of urgency and renewed belief in the inherent good of mankind. People like Heather, who lived her beliefs in the kindness of others; individual heros like the gentlemen on the TV news this morning, now in a wheelchair (fortunately temporary, until his leg heels) and with his girlfriend able to be there, by his side.

    This is an emotionally trying experience. We need to believe in the likelihood that our speech can be made in safe places, that we can voice our disagreeements yet do so peacefully — first with words, then at the ballot box or by social norms of good will. We want to believe in peace between all brothers — black and white — and i do personally condemn, wholeheartedly, this agregious idea of ‘supremacy of the white race’. There is no one race more equal than another.

    Our nation has struggled with this idea: that all races shall be treated equal. There was a time when the ‘measure of man’ was 1 for a white landed patriot and something different for the slave. There were times when ganggs in New York vote over who could stuff the ballot box more, instead of trusting each in other and trusting in 1-man equals 1-vote. There was a time when a woman could not vote, could not inherit land unless she was married, could not enjoy many of the blessings of liberty all while suffering the risk of losing her sons to its cause.

    There was a time when “fringe” was simply a fashion statement. Now, …now I don’t now what to say.

    Comment by Cornfed — August 14, 2017 @ 8:27 am

  3. #2, Noble sentiments, but very flawed in execution.

    I also condemn white supremacy and all it stands for, but it takes two to tango and the so-called “AntiFa” group are as much to blame. In fact from many accounts they instigated the actual violence. These groups are hardly noble people fighting for noble causes, in fact they are often anti-freedom and engage in the most hateful identity politics imaginable, they are really no better than neo-Nazi’s and the like. So let’s find out more about them before we automatically confer hero and martyr status on them. IMO, they have as much blood on their hands in the horrible death of Heather as the other side.

    Second, your summation of American history is very left-wing and somewhat offensive, as it implies the US was this horrible place for everyone who was non-white. To begin with, gangs stuffing ballot boxes and the treatment of women are not race related at all yet you lump them into that category.

    In regards to slavery, it was a horrible blight on our history, but let’s put it into perspective: the majority of Americans were not slave holders. Not all blacks were slaves. There were many black families who lived happy lives and had more of liberty’s blessings than blacks virtually anywhere else in the world. These families was just as patriotic as many whites.

    In regards to gangs stuffing ballot boxes, again that had nothing to do with race. It was simply good ‘ole political corruption that has existed forever and is not unique to
    the US. It was also not emblematic of the voting system as a whole, which was peaceful and fair.

    In regards to the treatment of women, you are way off. While things like suffrage and land owning were not *universal* in the US there were large areas where they existed. Voting laws and land laws were left to the states and local towns, and in fact there were many places where women were granted the right to both. Even in places where land ownership/inheritance were technically illegal, exceptions were often made. Women were voting in elections in the U.S. as early as the late 1700′s. Women in the US had higher standards of living and more freedom than many *men* in other countries. You also ignore that the blessings of liberty don’t always manifest themselves purely in what you are allowed or not allowed to do.

    Lastly, while the events of a few days ago were horrific and tragic, it was in the whole a sideshow of a sideshow. Your implication that the events show some kind of “resurgence” of fringe elements is absurd. These groups have tiny memberships and even tinier influence. White supremacy groups have had these “events” every year for years. The only difference here is that a death occurred as a result of it. Obviously newsworthy, but hardly indicative of American life and certainly not justifying the breathless end-to-end MSM frenzy over it. The liberals and MSM are doing that because a) they want to use it as a supposed example of Trumps election leading to a “resurgence” of hate groups and b) it feeds their false narrative of America being a racist, evil country. Don’t fall for it.

    Comment by zf — August 14, 2017 @ 1:13 pm

  4. The more we learn, the more it appears that the Antifa and BLM were encouraged in their behavior by condescending, opportunistic, self promoting Democrats:

    FLASHBACK: Charlottesville Mayor Held Rally Declaring City “Capital of Resistance”

    VIDEO=> Antifa Flag Raised Up Over Hennepin County Govt. Center in Solidarity with Charlottesville

    Antifa Started Violence In Charlottesville, Police Directed White Nationalists To Disperse To Where Antifa Was

    At minimum directly due to the death of one protester the mayor and police chief need to be prosecuted for malfeasance in office that lead to this death. Virginia Governor McAuliffe is guilty of trying to cover up the malfeasance. Hopefully, since the ACLU was the one who forced the Court to give the permit, that they would turn around and complete their duty in this matter to file a lawsuit against Charlottesville for intentionally promoting violence during a lawfully permitted assembly. Failing to follow the demonstration’s planning with the police and city instigated the death of that woman.

    VA Police Spox Confirms: Yes, Violence In Charlottesville Was “On All Sides”

    Comment by dscott — August 15, 2017 @ 3:50 pm

  5. The cops are being co-opted to carry out a political agenda. They need to remember that their duty to “protect and serve” applies to citizens, not their manipulative political bosses.

    Comment by Tom — August 17, 2017 @ 2:14 pm

  6. Wow, lots of info to think over.
    Thanks for this discussion!

    Comment by Cornfed — August 19, 2017 @ 5:09 pm

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